Child Protection Resource

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Applying to discharge or vary a Special Guardianship Order

The law is as set out at section 14 D of the Children Act 1989, which is set out at the end of this post. We can see from this that a parent can apply to vary or discharge an SGO but needs the court’s permission first.

‘Vary’ means you want to change the content of the order; ‘discharge’ means you want the order to come to an end. There is probably little point in applying to discharge or vary an order until at least six months have passed since it was first made – if you think that the order should not have been made in the first place, you should consider applying to appeal – but you will have to do that within 3 weeks.

Special Guardianship Orders are meant to be a way of providing a child with a permanent home throughout his childhood so you will need good reasons to say that the order should no longer apply, once it has been made. There is no automatic legal aid for parents in such proceedings.

For more general information about SGOs, see this post.

The courts have decided that this is a two stage test.

a. First the parent must show a change of circumstances.
b. Then the court will consider the child’s welfare and the parent’s prospects of success in challenging the SGO.

Step 1: What counts as a ‘significant change of circumstances’ ?

The courts are unlikely to place much weight on use of the word ‘significant’ when applied to the word ‘changes’. In G (A Child) [2010] EWCA Civ 300 Wilson LJ decided to proceed on the basis that there is no relevant difference between applying for permission to discharge a placement order [under section 24(3) of the Adoption and Children Act 2002] and applying for permission to discharge an SGO, even though section 14D refers to ‘significant’ changes and the Adoption and Children Act does not.

Various courts have agreed that the bar cannot be set too high so that no parents could ever get over it; parents should not be discouraged from trying to improve their circumstances. But the change in circumstances has got to be a relevant one.

In the case of Re B-S (Children) [2013] EWCA Civ 1146 the court described the test for ‘change of circumstances’ in this way, in the context of the Adoption and Children Act 2002:
a. … the court has to be satisfied on the facts of the case that there has been a change in circumstances ‘of a nature and degree sufficient, on the facts of the case, to open the door to the exercise of judicial evaluation’
b. the test should not be set too high, because parents should not be discouraged from bettering themselves or from seeking to prevent the adoption of their child by the imposition of a test that is unachievable;
c. whether or not there has been a relevant change in circumstance must be a matter of fact to be decided by the good sense and sound judgment of the tribunal hearing the application;
d. if there is no change in circumstances, that is the end of the matter, and the application fails.

In another case also called G (A Child) [2015] EWCA Civ 119 the Court of Appeal agreed that a change in the child’s circumstances could also be relevant.

Therefore, the parent will have to demonstrate some relevant changes which on the facts of the particular case in front of the judge, means it is appropriate for the Judge to consider moving on to Step 2 of the process. It is likely that if the concerns about your parenting in the care proceedings were very serious, you will need to show correspondingly serious changes.

For example, in Re G [2010] the mother’s child was living with the maternal grandmother under an SGO after the mother had been in a number of violent relationships. However, the grandmother agreed she would not oppose permission being given to the mother to apply to discharge the SGO, after hearing about the efforts the mother had made to attend counselling/therapy to help her make better relationship choices in the future. The mother was also caring successfully for her second child without any intervention from Children’s Services.

Step 2: What do the courts mean by considering issues about ‘welfare’ and ‘prospects of success’ ?

Having determined that the approach to ‘change’ should be the same for applications to discharge an SGO and to discharge a placement order, it made sense for Wilson JL to also decide in G (A Child) [2010] that courts should take the same approach after deciding that the circumstances had changed.

Wilson LJ confirmed that this means the approach in M v Warwickshire County Council [2007] should be followed, where he said at paragraph 29 of his judgment in that case:

In relation to an application for leave under s.24(3) of the Act I therefore hold that, on establishment of a change in circumstances, a discretion arises in which the welfare of the child and the prospect of success should both be weighed. My view is that the requisite analysis of the prospect of success will almost always include the requisite analysis of the welfare of the child. For, were there to be a real prospect that an applicant would persuade the court that a child’s welfare would best be served by revocation of the placement order, it would surely almost always serve the child’s welfare for the applicant to be given leave to seek to do so. Conversely, were there not to be any such real prospect, it is hard to conceive that it would serve the welfare of the child for the application for leave to be granted.

This means a change in circumstances is a necessary but not sufficient condition to get permission to make the application to discharge a SGO – it opens the door for the Judge to consider it and he or she will then examine the often overlapping issues of the child’s welfare/prospects of success of the application.

The child’s welfare is not however the paramount consideration for the court in this exercise. Also, the issue of “a real prospect of success” relates to discharging/varying the order NOT necessarily the return of the child to the parent’s care. See Re G [2015].

At this stage, the courts will probably want to consider how long the changes you have made have been in place, and how likely they are to be sustained in the future.

Section 14 D Children Act 1989

Special guardianship orders: variation and discharge

(1)The court may vary or discharge a special guardianship order on the application of—
(a)the special guardian (or any of them, if there are more than one);
(b) any parent or guardian of the child concerned;
(c )any individual in whose favour a [Child arrangements order] is in force with respect to the child;
(d) any individual not falling within any of paragraphs (a) to (c) who has, or immediately before the making of the special guardianship order had, parental responsibility for the child;
(e) the child himself; or
(f) a local authority designated in a care order with respect to the child.
(2) In any family proceedings in which a question arises with respect to the welfare of a child with respect to whom a special guardianship order is in force, the court may also vary or discharge the special guardianship order if it considers that the order should be varied or discharged, even though no application has been made under subsection (1).
(3) The following must obtain the leave of the court before making an application under subsection (1)—
(a) the child;
(b) any parent or guardian of his;
(c) any step-parent of his who has acquired, and has not lost, parental responsibility for him by virtue of section 4A;
(d) any individual falling within subsection (1)(d) who immediately before the making of the special guardianship order had, but no longer has, parental responsibility for him.
(4) Where the person applying for leave to make an application under subsection (1) is the child, the court may only grant leave if it is satisfied that he has sufficient understanding to make the proposed application under subsection (1).
(5) The court may not grant leave to a person falling within subsection (3)(b)(c) or (d) unless it is satisfied that there has been a significant change in circumstances since the making of the special guardianship order.

204 thoughts on “ Applying to discharge or vary a Special Guardianship Order ”

  1. MatthewJune 6, 2016 at 10:17 am Giving a link to what paperwork needs to be filled out would be a damn good idea.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author June 6, 2016 at 9:17 pm Yes it would wouldn’t it? And you might think that a Government who cuts legal aid and passes every more complicated laws might think it part of their duty to the people who suffer from these actions, to have a proper website with advice and links and the ability to download and fill in forms. You might very well think that it is an absolute disgrace that just a handful of individuals are trying to fill in that rather huge gap. I am sorry that I have neither the time or the money to make this the resource which I think is so sorely needed. I think the forms are available on some government site but to be honest I am not sure and they don’t make this stuff easy to find. If anyone has a good link, I would be very pleased to know it.
  1. Nu shoesApril 8, 2017 at 7:21 am Legal forms depot is the website you need to visit. Its a bit complicated with talk of subscriptions but I think that it is just for professionals. Generally I that no they have samples for the gen public
  1. Angelo GrandaApril 8, 2017 at 10:19 amhttp://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/
  1. Tereasa Lea SmithMay 14, 2022 at 3:24 pm thank you I see you posted this some years ago I can only hope and prey this will be my godsend.
    very much appreciated
  1. AGR8MUMApril 17, 2019 at 1:05 am C100 for the application and ex160 if you are low income to waive the fees, (fee is £215. ) fill them in send it in and wait .ca court date. I did this and the whole process took about a year
  1. KerryMay 29, 2019 at 3:36 pm Hi can you get egal aid to end a special guardian order or to apply for extra contact ? Solicitor to me today would be around 10 k
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 13, 2020 at 10:13 am I suggest you read through the posts on this site and if there is anything you are still unclear about email me on [email protected]
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 13, 2020 at 10:10 am Contact the court where you think the order was made? Should be the same court that made the SGO in the first place.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author July 28, 2016 at 8:32 pm Thanks Crystal. I have never found the Gov.uk website easy to navigate.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author February 3, 2018 at 4:48 pm I always think it is better to regulate a situation formally so if your mum supports you it shouldn’t be difficult to discharge the SGO, particularly if you have been stable for 5 years and been carrying out a pretty big parenting role in the meantime. But you do need to get some proper legal advice from someone who can read all the paperwork and understand the background.
  1. beckyMay 24, 2018 at 6:12 pm am in same boat my mum has mine am just starting to try and discharge sgo order and need to fill in a form to start it as no legal aid is this the form i would need please help x
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author August 18, 2018 at 7:27 pm If you want to apply to court to discharge the SGO you will need some proper legal advice, you will need to sit down with a lawyer and go through all the paperwork and circumstances of your particular case. You would have to show a change of circumstances and that it is in the child’s best interests to live with you. It is quite hard to discharge these orders as they are meant to be permanent. However, the whole point of an SGO is that it is not an adoption order and is meant to reflect the reality of the child’s life – i.e. you are her mother, not your aunt. So if she doesn’t understand who you are and what role you play in her life, that isn’t good and needs to be corrected. Also what do you mean by ‘the placement keeps breaking down’ ? If things are not going well with your aunt and she is struggling to look after your daughter, that may be a good argument to ask the court to look again at the arrangements. But I am afraid to sort this out it looks inevitable that you will have to to to court and it would be best to get a lawyer to help. You might qualify for legal aid but you would need to go and speak to them about that.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author March 28, 2020 at 7:50 pm It sounds as if you have certainly made changes – but 2 years is a long time and it may be that the court thinks it wouldn’t be in your son’s best interests to move him. It all depends very much on the facts of each case, how old he is etc. You really need to get some advice from a lawyer who can have access to all the paperwork. You might qualify for legal aid but I appreciate its going to be more difficult in the current health crisis to get advice.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author June 6, 2016 at 11:26 pm Thanks Julie! I should have known that one… still bruised by my last attempt to use the ‘form finder’…
  1. Angelo GrandaJune 6, 2016 at 11:09 pm I also suggest that there would be a good market for any experienced solicitor’s clerk, legal secretary or paralegal if they were to go online and offer a legal paperwork service to LIP’s.
  1. Angelo GrandaJuly 28, 2016 at 11:48 pm Readers may be interested to know something which has just happened and save themselves a little time possibly. An application on the correct forms in paper format was submitted on the behalf of a family . They waited 5 weeks patiently. They were then contacted by the Court office and it was requested that the application was sent electronically. 3 weeks later,still no word.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 1, 2016 at 12:34 pm If facilitating the direct contact with the parents is subjecting you to abuse or unacceptable pressure, then you don’t have to be directly involved. Your legal obligation is to make the children available for contact, I assume – if contact is subject to a court order. If the parents abuse that privilege and make things difficult for you, I think you are perfectly entitled to say ‘unless your behaviour changes/improves, we will no longer be directly involved with you. You will have to find someone else to pick up/be present at contact’. then the obligation to sort that out falls upon the parents. And if they don’t like that, they can make their own application to court.
  1. Angelo GrandaSeptember 2, 2016 at 4:07 am Mr.Crabtree, I think you can také a cue from Sarah’s advice in respect of parental contact and court orders in general.
    Think about the balance of power and always remember that as you have the child in your care, the power is in your hands.
    Contacts are often difficult for parents and children. Not surprising- it is awkward ,unnatural situation for both.
    If they say or do anything and i mean anything which you don’t like or which upsets you, you always have the power to call it abuse of priviledge if it makes things difficult for you in any way.You can do more or less what you want because you hold the balance of power.After all, why should parents have the freedom to go around talking to others about how you care for their children? Surely that is taking free speech too far and it must be difficult and upsetting for you.The LA’s and foster -carers hate it too. No-one would ever discuss or risk upsetting parents.
    I advise you to make it very clear to them.If they don’t watch their p’s and q’s and if they do anything you don’t like,you will call it abuse of privilege and make it difficult for them.
    They will powerless! If they can afford to get a solicitor and make a court application,it will také a long time.Civil court orders mean very little unless they can be enforced.
    I am no lawyer but i think you are on safe ground to control their behaviour to suit youself.Warn them first but if they don’t change, clamp down hard.For example,if the child is ever upset for any reason after a contact, think about cancelling a couple while you consult CAMHS.
    You have every right to use your power to your advantage and improve the situation.
    I hope this helps.
  1. Angelo GrandaSeptember 2, 2016 at 9:32 am Mr Crabtree, I am sure i don’t need to mention that you can exercise your power in two ways.Use the ‘ carrot’ as well as the stick and tell the parents that you can also show discretion in their favour ( extra privileges, flexibility of rules and so on).
    As i said before, the court orders and procedures mean very little except when enforced and the CS are unlikely to také matters to court for similar reasons to the parents.You hold the balance of power. Exercise it!
  1. helensparklesSeptember 2, 2016 at 10:07 am This would be private law, which is why there is no funding, CS would not be involved unless asked to provide a report for the court.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author July 26, 2017 at 5:47 pm If you can’t sort it out between yourselves then the only options are mediation or applying to court I am a afraid. But you probably won’t get legal aid to help make an application to court, or it will be means and merits tested. you could apply to court to vary the contact order in place (or ask for a contact order if there isn’t one) or even to discharge the SG order itself – but that’s a tough one.
  1. VictoriaDecember 4, 2018 at 11:37 pm I am in exactly the same situation
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author December 28, 2018 at 4:47 pm I am afraid if you can’t reach agreement by negotiation or mediation then your only option is to return to court and ask for the existing contact order to be varied. If there is a supervision order in place then the LA should really be helping with this! Has the social worker spoken to the SGO and explained the position? That seems the first obvious step. Would you be willing to meet them and talk about it? Is there any flexibility at all with your work that would allow for some weekend contact? Without knowing the objections to contact during the week or the constraints of your job, I can’t really say more. But I hope you can sort something out. Good luck.
  1. helensparklesSeptember 1, 2016 at 1:45 pmhttp://www.naccc.org.uk/find-a-centre & the link
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 4, 2016 at 8:33 am I am sorry to hear that. You must protect your own health as you are caring for 3 children. You cannot be forced to supervise contact if the parents are behaving badly. I would suggest putting the ball in their court and saying that you will make the children available for contact but only IF it is properly supervised, and due to their bad conduct, you can no longer be that person.
  1. Sally PAugust 24, 2017 at 9:33 am Hello Melissa I too have a SGO and stopped contact. I also have my own children and have yet to meet anyone who has a SGO and isn’t a grandparent. After 5 years we are finding it really, really difficult. How do you cope? SP
  1. Elizabeth BSeptember 24, 2017 at 10:35 am My daughter lost two children via an SGO granted in favour of her abusive ex partner’s sister. The sister is a female version of the partner but able to pull the wool over SS eyes, apparently. This has only just happened so I dread to think how my daughter will have contact with her children (three years and one year old) when the sister is barely willing to speak to her and blames her for the abuse she suffered.
  1. SamSeptember 24, 2017 at 3:47 pm Unfortunately certain types of people can play the game very well, to the detriment of the children. I am not a lawyer, but if there is an order allowing contact to take place, this is what should happen. If it doesn’t get the matter back into court ASAP. it is important from your side to try and maintain the contact as the type of person you describe may try and alienate the children from the maternal family. Sorry not to be more positive, but I do know the behaviour of this type of person first hand, and their controlling is absolutely nothing to do with the welfare of the child and everything to do with they are bullies
  1. VictoriaDecember 4, 2018 at 11:39 pm Well said
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author January 25, 2018 at 9:36 am The LA should have set out a package of support they were going to give you at the time the order was made. Have you got someone at the LA you can ring and ask for some advice/help? As you are SG you get the final say on contact so provided you aren’t being completely unreasonable, hopefully the court will support your position, if you do end up there. Could the LA help organise a round table meeting, to see if you can sort out the problem without going to court? Or have relationships broken down already?
  1. MichelleSeptember 23, 2016 at 5:40 pm Hi on the 29th January 2016 my then 2 year old twin girls were placed with paternal grandparents with a SGO. I see them once a fortnight without fail and all contacts have been positive. They have also all been supervised by their grandma. I’ve asked if it can progress to me seeing them on my own as that is meant to be the way forward, they said “no because contact has to be facilitated by them” Am I right in thinking facilitated means they help with contact and help to sort out contact as in where when n how but doesn’t mean supervised? Please can you help me
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 23, 2016 at 10:21 pm You would need to look carefully at how the original order was worded. There can be confusion about ‘supervised’ ‘supported’ and ‘facilitated’. ‘Supervised’ means that someone has to be with you; supported/facilitated usually means just that someone is going to help you set up the contact but not usually that you have to have another adult with you. Problems arise when people mix the words up. It seems clear the PGP think that they are under a duty to supervise you. What does the order say? But if contact is going well, then hopefully everyone can agree that it may not need to be strictly supervised. Can you compromise and ask for half the contact not to be supervised, and see how this goes? But if the order is very strict they may have to go back to court and ask the judge to change it.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author August 17, 2017 at 6:50 pm Good luck. Sounds like you are in a good place now.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 11, 2017 at 2:23 pm The difficulty is that SGOs are supposed to be ‘permanent orders’ i.e. meant to last for the whole childhood. So is is difficult to discharge them and courts won’t do it lightly. But if there is a real change in your circumstances, you have having unsupervised contact and the children want to be with you, it is probably worth talking to your parents and see if you can reach any agreement between you about changing the order. It’s often better to avoid contested court hearings if you can.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 23, 2016 at 10:16 pm As you are 15, the courts should listen to you very seriously. Your views won’t necessarily decide the issue but you are old enough for them to carry a lot of weight. You could apply to get your own solicitor and join your mother in the application. Do you have an advocate, or someone you can talk to in the local authority? (I am assuming you are currently in foster care?)
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 4, 2016 at 8:31 am I would guess – but can’t possibly know, without seeing the relevant papers – that the LA don’t have as much faith as you do in your recovery. They have to take a cautious approach because if they get it wrong, children are at risk. I know this is very frustrating when you feel you are doing everything that is asked of you and are doing well. What does your mum think? If she is persuaded to apply for an SGO you can go to court and argue against it – but I appreciate it is very difficult when it is family involved and court proceedings can often end up making things worse. I think you need to understand the precise arguments the LA are making – have they provided you with any paperwork? Notes of meetings?
  1. Angelo GrandaOctober 5, 2016 at 6:52 am KymThomas,
    Please help us out? You are saying that Social Services are ‘ making’ your Mum apply for an SGO.
    I don’t believe the Local Authority have the power to make her apply for anything! You and she should consult the Family Rights Group (FRG) website which issues all the advice sheets about SGO’s you will need.
    I can only guess that both you and your Mum attend Looked after Children reviews every six months. It is the purpose of the reviews to ‘review’ the ongoing situation, as the name implies, and if you are recovered , the IRO has a duty to reunite the child with you if possible.
    Thus you should not really need to go to court in theory.
    Have you raised the question of a reunion at the reviews? Is Mum supporting it?
    Are there alternatives to continued separation? Could you move in with Mum if only temporarily?
    I suggest you contact the FRG and get an independent advocate asap.Otherwise your rights ( and those of the child) may be ignored.
    There are tests which can prove you are off drugs etc.
  1. Lilly mayOctober 11, 2016 at 9:52 pm Social services have to got my mother to apply for a SGO … Instead of taking it to court themselfs under PLO they have payed for my mum to do it meaning that unlike under PLO legal aid isn’t available as its classed as a private court matter according to all the solicitors I have been too.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 8, 2016 at 10:38 pm It isn’t possible to advise you or anyone about your particular situation on this site as all the information I have is this short paragraph. I can only make some general points which may or may not apply to you. You really need to sit down with a lawyer in real life and have a proper conversation about your options, but I appreciate that is not always easy to do if you don’t qualify for public funding for legal representation. But if you are talking about a supervision order, I assume you are in care proceedings, so you should qualify for non means, non merits tested public funding. Generally, the fact that anyone’s child has been removed three times for the same problem, I am afraid makes it very, very unlikely that you are going to convince any judge to return that child. Everyone deserves at least once chance, some people deserve a second chance but a third or fourth chance is rarely granted. This is because the impact on a child of not having a stable and consistent home during childhood can be very serious and cause harm to their emotional development that will last all their life. However, if you have been sober for 9 months then you have done really well – all I can ‘advise’ is that you go to court and tell the judge what you have done and explain why you would not let alcohol get in the way of your parenting in the future.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 12, 2016 at 8:30 am I don’t think you automatically get it as these aren’t care proceedings. I think it is both means and merits tested – i.e. you have to have a very good case and you have to be very poor. But you would need to speak to a solicitor about this -it’s not my field of expertise.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 12, 2016 at 8:34 am I am so sorry to hear this. Sometimes no matter how much love and support you can offer people, it just isn’t ever enough and that is heartbreaking. An SGO is supposed to be an option of permanence so they won’t be lightly overturned. From even the brief history you give of your foster daughter, I am afraid I wouldn’t be optimistic that she is going to turn her life around to the extent required. She will not automatically get legal aid to apply to overturn any SGO, as far as I am aware. Only parents in care proceedings get non means, non merits tested public funding. If there is no contact order from the court, then you as holders of ‘super PR’ get to decide what to do about it – so if you say contact has to be supervised, that is your decision, unless and until a court overrides it.
  1. Lilly mayOctober 11, 2016 at 10:11 pm Nor do I understand when iv showed changes that they can after separating and after completing my contract of expectations they can now go for a SGO especially in January and after letting me keep the baby due in December!
  1. helensparklesOctober 13, 2016 at 11:06 pm Or she could just speak to an actual lawyer, she would need one to make an SGO application regardless of the LA supporting her or not.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author December 2, 2016 at 10:59 am I don’t think it can be right to say that asking to discharge the SGO means an ‘automatic’ investigation into your other children. I assume your niece is at least 15 years old by now? So she is certainly old enough to ‘vote with her feet’ and it certainly makes no sense for you to continue with an order which isn’t in fact being obeyed. But in the circumstances, whether or not the order is formally discharged, in reality it is ineffective and it is ineffective because the child will not longer accept it – so it can’t be your responsibility. So if you are really worried that a formal discharge of the order might lead to investigation then I can’t see any harm in just letting the situation alone. Just make it very clear to the LA that your niece is making her own decisions and you can’t control that.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author April 5, 2017 at 3:36 pm I think its a mixture of website and blog. I try to update general factual stuff, but I also post my own and other’s personal views; which is more blog territory.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author April 5, 2017 at 5:24 pm Start a blog! its easy! And I have found Twitter quite useful for trying to spread the word.
  1. SamApril 5, 2017 at 7:41 pm Looked -after-Child It is easy to start a blog, if I can do it anyone can . Email me if you get stuck, though I just Google when I get stuck.
  1. HelenSparklesAugust 14, 2017 at 9:09 pm Applying to discharge or vary a Special Guardianship Order https://childprotectionresource.online/applying-to-discharge-or-vary-a-special-guardianship-order/
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 17, 2017 at 7:27 pm I am sorry to hear that. If you can’t reach any agreement between you and your ex then I am afraid you have to go to court. I don’t think that you need to contact social services; SG orders are ‘private’ law orders, which means they are orders made between two individuals, rather than a ‘public’ law order like a care order which is made between individuals and the state (the local authority). If the local authority no longer have any involvement in your life, then the courts should treat you just like any other parents who can’t agree on where the children should live. I don’t think that the biological connection should be treated as more important than the actual relationship the children have with the adults in their life. I think you do need to speak to a solicitor to get an idea of what you need to do. I assume that if you are splitting up there might also be issues of property/finance you need to sort out, but I can see you state you are not married.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 25, 2017 at 9:13 am you will need to make an application to the court that made the SG Order. Do you know what court that is? If you don’t, just go to your local court and ask them for the right form to fill in. There may be a charge to process the form. The court staff can’t give you any legal advice but they can hopefully point you to the right form. this might help with finding forms https://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/FormFinder.do this might help you find the court https://courttribunalfinder.service.gov.uk/search/ But remember that a lot of courts now don’t have any counter staff available after lunch or even won’t do drop in appointments and you need to ring and make an appointment to issue an application. So check before you go!
  1. TomSeptember 26, 2017 at 12:14 pm Thank you very much for the help!
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 2, 2017 at 11:17 am The court should list it for a preliminary hearing as the mother will need the court’s permission to make the application. I think you will be the only other party but I think the LA ought to be informed as well, but the court can look at all this at the first hearing. I don’t know how quickly your local court can list anything so there may be a few weeks before the application and turning up at court. I don’t think the court will want any written or oral evidence from anyone at the first hearing but check what the court sends you and what they require.
  1. Mrs NOctober 2, 2017 at 3:21 pm Many thanks!
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 9, 2017 at 8:01 am Sorry, counselling available for family members in this situation is – so far as I know – pretty much non existent unless you can pay privately. But it might be worth contacting your GP and seeing what he/she can refer you to. If you can get secure housing and your child wants to be with you and your mum supports this, it would definitely be worth exploring what can be done. However, its not easy to overturn SGO as they are meant to be permanent options. However, you could at least make sure there is a good regime of contact in place even if you can’t succeed in getting your son living with you.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 11, 2017 at 2:24 pm Angelo, SGOS ARE meant to be a permanent option. That is why they are difficult to unpick.
  1. Angelo GrandaOctober 12, 2017 at 12:09 pm I respect your assertion re-SGO’s and permanent options, Sarah. I understand perfectly that L.A.s and CP professionals award themselves the power to make all sorts of dictat like that one based upon their own professional opinions but the question is ” Do they act lawfully?” We have already discussed and agreed that the very word ‘permanence ‘ has been adopted and used as ‘jargon’ by these people to mean until a child is 18 but I have suggested to Lisa H. that she engage a lawyer willing to question such an abuse of power. Clearly , her child wants to go home to Mum and Grandma supports reunification ,if possible. The problem is with professional jargon like ‘permanence’ ,Sarah arises when the LA flouts legal guidelines and safeguards and ignores its duties. For example, it does not inform vulnerable families of plans for children, keep them suitably informed or explain issues to them. Neither are families given the chance to express agreement or disagreement or contribute . When the LA does this and when the Judge does not stipulate strict time scales ,it renders the Court decision unlawful .It should never be that children are parted from Mums unlawfully. They should be included and kept informed ( according to Munby and other Judges like Mc Farlane. Especially they should have care-plans explained fully to them.
    Many parents would appeal lower court decisions immediately were it explained to them that these SGO orders and foster-care plans were permanent. They are conned by the professionals who assert down the line that the plans are to last until a child is 18. ‘Conned’ is the right word for it .Foster-care and special guardianship is ,IN REALITY, temporary. Even foster-carers understand they are to care for children only until they can be returned to parents. Other wise they would become unofficial adoptive parents.
    Parents need lawyers to argue the legality of these issues rather than make assumptions.
    Sarah, have you any idea why so many parents appear to make comments and ask for advice but only once? They don’t acknowledge replies or follow up queries.I suspect that, as in one particular case I know of, the parent’s solicitors advice to a parent was to steer clear of this resource and the FRG and other internet sites. Parents are warned off!
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 12, 2017 at 5:25 pm It is not a ‘self awarded’ diktat. It is a matter of law. SGOs were devised to be an option of permanency. That is what the law says. That is the law that Parliament enacted. Nothing to do with the lawyers.
  1. HelenSparklesDecember 4, 2017 at 10:11 pm You need legal advice. An SGO is an order which is intended to provide permanence and stability for children, so not only do you need to evidence change, it may depend on how long the children have been with your step sister and her husband.
  1. HelenSparklesDecember 28, 2017 at 10:02 pm When you ask about varying an SGO to kinship carer, you are asking for a court order to be altered to someone caring for a child under fostering regulations, so they are very different things. Whether someone makes an application for a SGO, supported or not by the LA, is often after they have been approved as kinship carers. The only mechanism (Sarah may correct me) I can envisage would be a court discharging the SGO, but the reasons for this would be likely to disqualify someone from being a carer under fostering regs as well. It would be better if everyone could act in children’s best interests and it is better for children that all the adults around them, who love and care for them, are able to at least put a face on any differences or disputes. You would be able to return to court if contact arrangements were not adhered to but orders really are only effective if people stick to them. CAFCASS would normally be involved, in terms of ensuring children’s views and wishes are heard in court, and they sometimes ask the LA for a report. If you have any concerns in regard to contact arrangements not being adhered to in so far as this might be comprising emotional abuse, you should raise them. People do play games and courts may or may not be suspicious of someone’s aims, but a court really isn’t the best play to try to resolve that. The court has granted an SGO, that means they view the current placement as robust enough to ensure permanency and stability for the children, a Supervision Order gives the LA oversight of that for a time limited period. If there is (what I would call) a whispering campaign against you, it may well destabilise the current placement to pursue contact, proceedings should be able to determine what really is in the interests of the children. Mainly this is adults putting their issues aside and children not being exposed to them.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author December 29, 2017 at 1:16 pm Judicial review won’t help you – it is a challenge to the process of a decision, not the merits of a decision. I think your best bet is to make your case clearly before the Judge in the current proceedings but what you are describing sounds like a complete breakdown of the adult relationships which is not going to be something the court can fix. The best it can do is make an order that contact takes place at certain dates and times but obviously if the other family frustrate this, you will have to go back to court to try and enforce the order and there is a limit to the court’s effectiveness here. I agree with Helen – there is no point arguing that they should be foster carers rather than SGOs. If they aren’t deemed suitable to be SGOs I think it vanishingly unlikely that the court would endorse any change to status to foster carers and vanishingly unlikely the LA would approve them as foster carers. The court can’t force this to happen – there are regulations in place that dictate what makes a lawful foster placement and the court can’t override these. the bottom line is that the type of order doesn’t matter very much. What matters is where the children live, who has influence over them and how co-operative the adults are going to be. You need to try and put your case in a way that doesn’t make the Judge think that you are willing participants in this ‘battle’ or that you think the LA is simply biased against you. I would worry that this won’t go over very well in court.
  1. HelenSparklesDecember 30, 2017 at 10:30 pm Just listened to Lemm Sissay saying Wigan apologised to him & he didn’t expect it. It happens more than you think, I’ve heard senior managers say that the LA should be sued. I wouldn’t say LAs always face up to the issues, but I have seen honesty and transparency.
  1. Angelo GrandaJanuary 1, 2018 at 1:12 pm Correction.The LA will continue UE to conduct its case INCORRECTLY.
    How did it fail?
    It should have arranged the mediation and family conference suggested by Sarah well BEFORE instigation of proceedings.
  1. HelenSparklesJanuary 3, 2018 at 7:41 pm How many court hearings do you attend?
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author January 11, 2018 at 8:38 pm Probably not if there is no involvement but you ideally should go back to court to discharge the order if it is no longer needed/working.
  1. LauraJanuary 12, 2018 at 12:49 pm Ok thank you..would it be better to go to court and ask for a variation/arrangement order..As it stands at the moment the children stay with me wed-sun with me picking them up from school on wednesday and returning them sunday evening making sure they attend school thursday friday this arrangement has been going on with the sgs and myself since august 2017.As the sg are family and we all get on very well i would still like them to be very much part of the childrens life.So would i have a better chance for asking the court for the children to live with me full time and the sgo stays in place,this way if at any time the sgs feel that i am not looking after them or coping with the children they can then return then back to themselfs..both my self and the sg are both 100% for this to happen..The way i look at it right or wrong the children come back to me with sgo still in place
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author January 12, 2018 at 4:37 pm The SG have ‘ultimate’ PR so if they are happy with this arrangement and it is working well and you are happy with the SGO to continue then its probably fine to leave it as it is.
    If you want the children to live with you full time then that probably undermines the whole basis of the SGO, as the children will not be living with the SGs – in that case there doesn’t seem much point in having an SGO and it ought to be discharged just so everything is clear.
    But if it isn’t broken, maybe you don’t need to try and fix it?
    If you are worried about this then I think you do need to see a solicitor and have them review all the relevant documents in this case. But from what you say it sounds like the current set up is working.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author January 25, 2018 at 9:38 am you as SG have ultimate PR and if you need to move because your mum is ill, you need to move. You aren’t saying that contact will never happen, its just going to be more difficult to organise, manage and there may be some more travelling. you may need to look at reducing the frequency of contact but making it longer? If the parents and grandparents object to what you are doing they can apply to court if you can’t get an agreement. This will be stressful but hopefully the court will support what you are doing, as you clearly have good reasons for a move.
  1. HelenSparklesFebruary 18, 2018 at 1:44 pm The SG has the right to make decisions about a child, but you could find this presents problems in the future, because you won’t have the overriding share of PR. You should seek legal advice and return to court.
  1. JoFebruary 20, 2018 at 4:47 pm Ty court for residency or sgc cancelation? Can it really be done to cancel sgo. Ive made major changes. No self harm for five years no hospital for five years no incidnets for five years. Discharged from mental health. Work in a school with children. Been fully stable. Live and care for my daughter 5 years bow. Minute she born i changed but LA said ine year stable wasnt enough so sgo to my mum. We all live togther and it works but i want to be fully responsible for my daughter. I want to be normal whatsever thats is . I want to love with just me and her yet still of course let grandma play huge part as she done so much for us. Ty for advice
  1. HelenSparklesFebruary 21, 2018 at 9:45 pm I think you should expect an assessment, Children and Family Services would usually be required to contribute, in the form of a report. Personally, I think maintaining change over a year is evidence of change and I am surprised a court granted an SGO in that context.
  1. JoFebruary 27, 2018 at 4:04 pm Ty for your advice. Yes la said a year wasnt long wnough stable and they didnt beleive i could maintain wellness. But its been 5 years now with little support and ive completed phscotherapy also. I have made appointemebt with solicitor for mon the 19th of march she is seeing me for £60 an was same solicitor i used in sgo order so she knows case. Wish me luck. Ty for advice
  1. HelenSparklesFebruary 18, 2018 at 1:43 pm An SGO is an order which is supposed to guarantee permanency for a child, through to their majority. I’m a bit confused about the LA being involved in unsupervised contact, unless they are making a private law application which the LA are writing a report in regard to? The LA no longer have PR, you do. If the child’s parents are in court making an application for contact, they will be making an application for a Child Arrangements Order, including who a child lives with can be part of that order.
  1. CharleneFebruary 19, 2018 at 1:26 pm Hi Helen thankyou for replying met with a social worker today and turns out it isn’t an sgo it’s just a care order were LA make decisions at the last court hearing the L.A. were told to come up with final decision and full term plan for my neice .. We really should have been given the right information I’m feeling a lot better as I’m now on the same page as someone and it’s looking positive they are having a meeting to decide if she can go home or not so fingers crossed now it won’t be a fast solution will do it gradually if they are granted and I’m just going to do my best for my niece in the time being xx
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author February 19, 2018 at 2:33 pm Phew, its always a relief when you get the right information.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author April 25, 2018 at 5:06 pm I am sorry to hear this Christina but unless you can persuade the court to change the order or you can negotiate with your sister, you are stuck. It is difficult to appeal or vary court orders unless there is a very obvious change of circumstances. If you can sit down and talk with your sister that would be best but I can appreciate this is often very difficult.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author May 15, 2018 at 10:59 pm The only other option apart from adoption is a child arrangements order but often SGOs are preferred as it gives the SG ‘enhanced PR’ and more control. You are right, the SGO is an option of permanence i.e. it is supposed to last for the rest of a child’s childhood so parents should not see it as a temporary option ‘while they get back on their feet’.
  1. Angelo GrandaJune 10, 2018 at 6:24 pm Look on the links and resources thread and you will see a link to the Family Rights Group ( FRG) which will give you all the advice you need online and it provides a free advice line.Good luck.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author July 26, 2018 at 9:42 pm I doubt you would be able to adopt as this is the point of the SGO – it gives you ‘super’ PR but doesn’t extinguish the parents. An adoption order would end any legal relationship between the little girl and her parents. I assume the court made the SGO at the outset for precisely these reasons. Its seen as in her best interests to have these relationships preserved. However, this is just assumption on my part, you would have to get proper legal advice from someone who has all the facts. But you don’t have to put up with the kind of behaviour you are getting from her father; that sounds really serious. If he has threatened to petrol bomb your house I think you need to go to the police and report this and I would be very wary about any direct contact with him unless and until he can stop threatening you. I don’t think adoption is the issue here – its about protecting this little girl and yourselves about what sounds like a really violent and threatening person. the SGO gives you this power. If there is no contact order, I would stop direct contact until you can be reassured you are all going to be safe.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author September 14, 2018 at 4:18 pm I think you just have to make sure the court knows what is going on. The situation you describe sounds very damaging for a child.
    Between now and the court hearing I am not sure what else you can do other than make social services aware.
    If you have changed your circumstances for the better than I hope you have a reasonable chance of challenging the order.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 22, 2018 at 8:40 pm It would be one way to force the LA hand. I assume any court hearing that application would have to make the LA parties and they would have little choice but to take the child into care. What a great shame that they can’t offer you any other help.
  1. LunaOctober 26, 2018 at 10:51 pm They offered a assessment for support but say respite is not available . She is unable to stay with any friend s or family due to volatile behaviour and risk to others . However they do try and support within are home , however we have had police involvement and now and pressing charges for Abh . As I am black and blue all over . I am devestaed but have no option as I have other children to be considered and safety of everyone . I’d we put her in to section 20 we have been told by the la that they will look into the whole family and our other daughter , I don’t see how that is fair as she has been through enough watching this abuse first hand including a knife attack . How is it correct that we will be in the wrong for saying that we fear for our safety , if it had been the other way Round and we’re worried about her safety they would remove straight away , I am so emotionally drained and in physical pain from this last assault from her . Please help us, I have been in touch with victim support and they are trying to look into are rights as well .
  1. LunaOctober 26, 2018 at 11:29 pm They also say long term Camhs but this is not working we have had so many therapies and she does not engage
  1. SamOctober 27, 2018 at 9:37 am Luna
    I am sorry to hear what you are going through , but not surprised. I am a birth parent who was also told there was no respite, even though the local authority have a duty under the Children Act 1989, to lessen the need for court proceedings anf for young people to be subject to criminal proceedings. They are using manipulation , by threatening you with investigation of your own child. If this was a personal abusive relationship, (and quite frankly it is BUT being done by a professional’s ), it would be called gaslighting.
    You may get some help about child on parent violence from here : https://holesinthewall.co.uk/about/ and because you are in a perilous position, I would recommend that you record every conversation with children’s services, it is legal.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 27, 2018 at 5:35 pm And a child getting a criminal conviction and going into the criminal justice system will NOT be a disaster.
    This is really bad advice, in my view.
    You really think the solution here is asking Luna to give evidence in a criminal trial against a child and hoping that child gets sent to prison to keep her safe? This is insane. Even assuming that the CPS would agree to prosecute which I am pretty certain they would not. It’s hard enough to get criminal proceedings against dangerous adult offenders.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 28, 2018 at 11:09 am Unless my knowledge of the criminal justice system is seriously out of date, it is my clear understanding that you do not, you CANNOt enter the criminal justice system without a criminal conviction. The age of criminal responsibility for child is TEN YEARS OLD. Nor do I understand a doorway opens in the CJS to a raft of help and support. That has not remotely been the experience of my adult clients. Please can you post clear links to where you are getting this information or I am going to have to delete these posts as they do not reflect my knowledge and understanding of the law and I do not want anyone getting dangerously misled.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 28, 2018 at 11:10 am Of course a child won’t be sent to an adult prison. But they will be sent to a secure unit. Again, please provide the source material for this information so I can check its validity. I do not think what you are saying is right at all.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 29, 2018 at 6:07 pm I don’t know enough about the criminal justice system to confidently say that this is wrong, but I know many, many lawyers who would take serious issue with your description of magistrates. I remain very doubtful that it can ever be in a child’s interests to point them towards the criminal justice system and I would urge any parent reading this to be very, very wary and take proper legal advice before embarking upon a course that might blight your child’s life for many years to come. Your view that there seems to be no problem at all in getting psychiatric help and support in the criminal justice system seems to fly in the face of reality, where children have been held in police cells because there are NO hospital beds available in the WHOLE COUNTRY.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 30, 2018 at 9:01 am And where are the doctors? The nurses? to treat the mentally ill children that you would start putting in asylum camps?
    The NHS is on its knees dealing with even urgent physical illness. Mental health services have been chronically underfunded for decades. Your suggestion that a mentally ill, possibly violent child, could be sent to a temporary ‘asylum’ camp is utterly bizarre. I am sorry, but I am not going to host any more discussion along these lines. I find it profoundly disturbing that his is your suggested solution to a very serious problem. The lack of hospital beds is NOT a ‘false ideology’. As Sir James Munby commented, as HHJ Lazarus commented even more recently, at some point the authorities will have ‘blood on their hands’ due to lack of provision for teenagers who need secure and safe accommodation.
  1. Angelo GrandaOctober 30, 2018 at 12:12 pm The lack of hospital beds is NOT a ‘false ideology’ and I did not write that the lack of hospital beds IS a ‘false ideology’.
    I am sorry but , if you read my comment again, Sarah, you will see that I wrote it is ‘false ideology ‘ that children are imprisoned in Police cells against their human rights because there are NO hospital beds available in the entire country.
    I believe that is what you wrote.
    That is just not true ,Sarah. In an emergency and at times of pressure on beds, folding beds are often set up in spare wards,buildings, hospital annexes etc. It is inhumane to imprison innocent children in prison cells. If it is true, as you claim outrageously , then it will be because it is easier for the authorities. I have to say i have not seen anything in the papers about it but i am willing to accept your word that it happens.It is profoundly disturbing that innocent juveniles are thrown in the cells.
    My mention of hospital beds within asylum camps was a reference to the extremes foreign governments will go to in countries like France and Turkey to uphold human Rights. the vulnerable ,especially innocent children will never be thrown into prison cells. Obviously , i hope such camps will never have to be set up here in Britain again as they were during the World War.
    Delete my comments by all means if they are dangerous. I would expect it of any responsible moderator but don’t misrepresent my words and try to make me look a fool.
    By the way , i actually know personally of a case where the authorities had no placement for a young autistic child . Even they would not dream of condemning an innocent child to a cell . They abandoned her at the local hospital and the nurses set up a bed for her even though there was no medical reason to admit her to a ward.
    Yes , a camp- bed on A&E for two nights over the weekend .Abandoned without even asking the hospital staff. When the matter was exposed in Court,of course, the Judge covered it up and took no action.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author October 30, 2018 at 1:15 pm You said this Here,readers,the false ideology will be that children are imprisoned in police cells unlawfully because there are no hospital beds in the whole country. There is clear evidence of children being held in police cells as there is no where else for them to go. What else are people supposed to do? Put them on the street? I am not going to post any more comments about this. I profoundly disagree with your view that the CJS is a provider of instant and easy mental health intervention and support. Absolutely nothing in my view could be further from the truth and I think it is irresponsible and unhelpful to let people believe otherwise.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author February 8, 2019 at 7:10 pm I am sorry I can’t be much help online Danielle – if you have made some serious changes to your life then it may be possible to persuade the court to discharge the SGO, but it hasn’t even been a year yet so it might be too soon for you to be able to show that you have made changes and can stick to them. but its not possible to give any sensible advice on line as I don’t know the full circumstances of your case.
  1. DanielleFebruary 10, 2019 at 8:52 pm how would I be able to get in contact with you for advice please as both me and my husband are devastated about this
  1. DanielleFebruary 10, 2019 at 8:59 pm with everything that’s happened over the last 2 years I’m unable to work but this has never stopped either myself our my husband from putting the children first. we just don’t know where to go or what to do next.
    our 11 year old has started wetting and soiling her self and our 8 year old is swearing and over eating yet our 15 year old is aloud to do what ever she pleases
  1. Angelo GrandaFebruary 11, 2019 at 1:49 am Danielle,
    I am not a lawyer just an ordinary parent and I understand and empathise with your plight.
    I believe the Law relevant to your case is section 39 Children Act. In the paramount interests of children,SW’s and IRO’s are intended to work with you to arrange rehabilitation home to natural parents when it becomes feasible but often they make no effort to do so. I agree with Sarah’s advice about getting a barrister,if you can afford to pay the bill privately. You can also approach an independent advocate.
    Advocacy and expert mediation ,if the LA follows correct procedure and the law ethically , should always be tried before going to court . Barristers are trained mediators.
    Take a look of this link and mention the Judgment to your advocate. In theory, i don’t see a lot of difference between discharging a full care-order and discharging a special guardianship order. Surely the children deserve rehabilitation to you as soon as possible and should always be the target. Be careful to get a barrister if you can. I tried with a solicitor with the help of legal aid and asked her to arrange a mediation meeting with the CS in an effort to work together etc. When we got to the meeting, the manager would not even let the solicitor talk or intervene on my behalf.He then merely stated tersely that they had no plans ever to return the children home and refused to consider changes.The solicitor just sat there silently. Unfortunately ,when we applied to Court eventually she was equally ineffective. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWFC/HCJ/2018/36.html Hope this helps and please will you stay in touch with the CPR to keep us informed.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author March 13, 2019 at 11:18 pm The English court will only have jurisdiction if your child is habitually resident in England so I think that any application would have to be made in the Philippines . but its a complicated area and I confess I am not sure; I am afraid you will need to seek specialist legal advice.
  1. Sarah Phillimore Post author May 6, 2022 at 1:02 pm It will be in your hair for many months.